Chat
Topic : BizTalk Server 2004: An Introduction to Developers Chat Expert : Naveen KS (MVP)
December
22, 2004
subhashini
(Moderator):
Hi all, welcome to the India Community webchat .The chat starts at
5.00 p IST. subhashini (Moderator):
Hi all, welcome to the India Community webchat . subhashini (Moderator):
Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule, to attend the chat subhashini (Moderator):
This is Subhashini Simha (Community Co-ordinator , Microsoft India
) , the moderator for this chat . Please welcome Naveen KS (MVP) the
expert for the chat today. Naveen K S holds an Engineering Degree
and is currently pursuing his M.Tech in Computer Science. He also
completed his MCAD.Net, MCP in SQL Server and Map Objects (GIS) Certification.
He is currently a Sr. Software Engineer in Hewlett Packard-GDIC division
of Microsoft Solutions DotNET practice based in Bangalore, India.
Naveen has vast experience in Requirements gathering, use cases, UML,
designing & development of business & GIS applications using
Microsoft technologies. His interest includes OOAD, UML, design patterns,
agile methods and mobile & other business application developments
using .Net.
Naveen manages a website [www.mstechcommunities]
and also manages a group whose interests are Designing, Architecture subhashini (Moderator):
& Management related to .Net applications.
Naveen is fascinated about technology and its impact on business and
loves to get involved in talk that discusses on same. He loves to
watch old Hollywood classic & war movies, Sci-Fi & Action
and is a great fan of Geoggery Peck & Tom Cruise. His interest
also includes playing computer games, surfing the internet, reading
about latest trends and technologies in the market. He can be reached
at ksnaveen@hotmail.com.
This chat will last for one hour. During this hour, our Expert will
respond to as many questions as they can. Please understand that there
may be some questions we cannot respond to due to lack of information
or because the information is not yet public. We encourage you to
submit questions for our Experts. We ask that you stay on topic for
the duration of the chat. This helps the Guests and Experts follow
the conversation more easily. We invite you to ask off topic questions
after this chat is over, but not during the cha Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Hi All... subhashini (Moderator):
Today is a discussion on BizTalk Server 2004: An Introduction to Developers.
The discussion would focus on :
What is BizTalk Server 2004?
Architecture
BizTalk Server & Visual Studio.NET 2003
BizTalk Server & EAI Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Thanks Subhsahini for introducing subhashini (Moderator):
So let's welcome Naveen Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Hi All... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Hi All Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Hi Sai & Ashok... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Hi and thanks a lot to all Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Today i would share my experience with you guys on BizTalk Server Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
I would first try start with why BizTalk, What is BizTalk Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Then I would talk little on standards used...its integration with
VS.Net 2003 Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
let me put something before I start Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
I woudl be getig some question which I would either answer while discussion
or in end depending on our discussion speed Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
As a architechts, designers, developers....we work on system which
are focused Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
focussed on Domain, requirements specific ... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: Before you embark naveen, can you please let us know whether you
are able to view/receive our messages? Thanks and sorry for the interruption A: Hi andy,....Yes I am able to see all you guys questions Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Slowly intenet emerged and we started developing web application which
was internet or intranet based with applcaiton Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
shared between various domains, areas, etc Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
but no application is island...we need to integrate application in
diverse areas, domains, Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
slowly people started inventing about Service Oriented based application... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
XML was center of stage for its easy interoperability and support
from large scale vendor into there platforms Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Now what is Biz Talk server? Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
BizTalk® Server 2004 is an integration server product that enables
you to develop, deploy, and manage integrated business processes and
XML-based Web services Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: What exactly is biz talk naveen? A: Hope This answers your question Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
BizTalk Server provides deep integration between messaging and orchestration,
as well as enhanced security and support for industry standards Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Biztalk has various components to be used Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
and those are -Business Activity Services, Human Workflow Services,
and the Business Activity Monitoring Framework... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
these enables information workers to interact with business processes. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
I would talk on this components later Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
To talk in layman Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
s term Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
BzTalk can be used in scenarios where we have created business processes
and those can be united in separate applications into a coherent whole
using Biztalks Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
I hope Prem this answers your query Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
I would be answer to questions if its similar to what i am talking Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: those application may be from diff platform/languages ? A: Yes, those can be from different platforms and languages Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
but output of application should be in XML format Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
or any other format like Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: Using Biz talk Server, is it possible to unite Visual basic 6 application,
VC++ and VB.Net applications?? A: Yes, we can unite....but I don't see any mean int in investion money
in creating a business solution using BizTalk server as most of output
you would be getting or middle ware componetns u would be using are
form Microsoft products which are interoperable Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Hi All,.... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
A request...Please reserve your questions and ask during last 15
minutes... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
if I start answering now..I may loose my flow and then start answering
u r personnaly queries which might not be useful to all abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: Naveen when u say the output as to be in xml how will transfer
to an EDI format or any other flat file format like CSV A: With BizTalk it is possible to output in many formats... to get
an output in the CSV or any other appropriate EDI format you just
need to provide appropriate envelopes in BizTalk Server.. the idea
is that within BTS 2004, XML is the format that is used and XML is
the tool that enables change in format Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
BizTalk server is a server product that enables you to develop, deploy,
and manage integrated business processes and XML-based Web services. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Let me come to architecture of Biztalk....with that I would explain a
flow of Biztalk server process Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
this would also help you guys to understand exactly what Biztalk sever
does internally,....no bothering what is your output from your tradition
application Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
BizTalk server has Receive Port through which you receive input to
server Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
it travels through receive port pipeline and then sent to MessageBox... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Your message would be in any format received in any format....but Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
during traveling throug receive pipe it would get converted into XML
format which BizTalk understands Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
this converted XML message is sent as Orchestration message Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: that means does bts understands data only in xml format A: No....it can take any format like XML Flat file, db etc Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Now the actual message also has meta-data describing properties on
a message. This is what is known as context properties. abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: If Visual Studio .NET 2003 has Biz Talk 2004 integrated with it
to develop solutions does it mean that every developer should have
Biz Talk 2004 on his desktop in order to create orchestrations and
Maps. A: the development environment for BTS 2004 is VS 2003. though maps
can developed using any XSL authoring tool including notepad, writing
orchestrations is more complicate and would need VS 2003. VS 2003
is also needed to compile the entire project and deploy the same to
the BTS. so yes, you would need vs 2003 on your machine for development.
BTS Explorer had the capability to connect to and deploy assemblies
on Server on other machines too.. you just need to have BTS specific
assemblies in the GAC for development to happen... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Now in the middle, we have business processes, or applications that
are waiting for particular types messages so that they can continue
or start business processes Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
The way these processes specify which messages they want from the
message box is through subscriptions abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: Which is responsible for converting data from "Any format"
to "XML" format and then to "Any format"? A: Conversion of data formats is done by BTS.. providing appropriate
maps for conversion is the responsiblity of the developer.. these
maps are nothing except XSD and XSLTs.. abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: BizTalk supports translation from xml to xml does it support translation
to edi format ? A: Yes.. BTS has specific support for conversion to EDI formats. BTS
supports conversion from any format to any format provided developer
is able to provide an appropriate map for the same.. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Somewhere along in the business process, after making some decision,
or doing some other business logic, a document will have to be sent
out of the system. Again, it will be deposited into the message box,
where it is pick up by a transport mechanism - again through a subscription,
formatted as necessary, then sent out. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
I'm waiting here a question....:-) Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
anyway i would tell what it was abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: Naveen, Can you tell us few applications which can be used with
Biztalk server? A: BTS is a middle ware application server.. some cool applications
developed have been B2B exchanges, Guranteed delivery of messages
to applications and receipients, integration with mainframes via Host
integration server and BTS combo, integration of various LOB applications
including Siebel.. if you have any specific scenario in mind we could
see how that can be done using BTS. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
why we have separate Message Box to store received and send messages
before and after processing ? Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
The reasons for having message box is for scalability, separate services
waiting for transmitting the received and sent request abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: If a message is terminated by a pipeline or orchestration , how
would i get the data backed up? A: message can terminate 'cause of error in processing or 'cause of
design of application. in case it is design of application, you can
write assemblies that serialise this either in the orchestration or
in the incoming/outgoing envelopes Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: Can i use Biztalk server 2004 to unite Non-Microsoft products like
"Java application" and "c++ application " and
"Main frame application"?? A: Yes you can use... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
We have received business processing request and processed information
how we can sent those Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
The answer is again adapters would be used to convert the processed
message into received request format.....this is convert back Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
what medium we would use to revive and sent these abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: Can i use Biztalk server 2004 to unite Non-Microsoft products like
"Java application" and "c++ application " and
"Main frame application"?? A: ABSOLUTELY.. that is the core value proposition of BizTalk... the
idea is to put out messages in a format that is independent of the
native formatting.. these formats are - Web Services, XML, CSV etc.
if Java application or C++ application can provide these outputs BTS
can consume these... also, BTS is able to consume any web based streams..
so anu output sent to a website can also be consumed by BTS. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
We would be using natively supported transport protocols which includes
HTTP, FILE, MSMQt, and SOAP Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Answering to Sathak question here Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
you need to define certain Business processing and then take inputs
from your ERP application Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
for pushing daily sales report from showroom to central office can
be done using some ftp task or db location Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
then pull this data into BTS and process it and sent it back through
ftp or store into db Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
yes.,..you can automate this process Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Continuing our chat..... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
we would see now about the standards used in BTS Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
XML is the core of BTS...its as per the w3c specifications... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
even Schemas which you would use to send and receive the information
would also be as per the w3c specification Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Also, Biztalks has BPEL which stands for Business Processing Execution
Langue Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
sd Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
created by Microsoft, BEA ,..IBM Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
HI all a request Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Hi All Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
PLEASE DON'T SEND PRIVATE MESSAGES TO ME Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): "SD"..... i typed
mistakenly
here as I got few private messages here...pls ignore Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
LET ME TALK./// subhashini (Moderator):
we have the last 4 mins left Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
BTS has few components which is used in business processing, receinv
and sending mesage etc Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
ant those are subhashini (Moderator):
so request all of you to send email to naveen for any additional subhashini (Moderator):
queries abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator):
If you want to ask a question, please use the option "Submit
a Question" so that the experts are able to answer it systematically.
Also, no private messages to experts please. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Business Rules Framework, Business Activity Services, Human Work flow
services and Health and activity tracking Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Now what is use of Business Rules Framework...?? Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
It helps to Integrate changing business policies with business processes,
it has graphical interface for developing and applying business rules... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
also it Import, export, and deploy business rules and policies Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
it can be integrate within an orchestration - no need to recompile
code abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: :( I did not find the chat useful...as it was discussion between
few users and Q&A seesion was going on....I joined the session
seeing the topic, BTS introduction, its architecture.....did not see
anything about it....please provide some links. A: Product documentation: abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: :( I did not find the chat useful...as it was discussion between
few users and Q&A seesion was going on....I joined the session
seeing the topic, BTS introduction, its architecture.....did not see
anything about it....please provide some links. A:http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=CDD47461-F4E2-4BC6-B5C2-2018AFF2823D&displaylang=en abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: What more software i will require apart from VS.NET 2003 to start
with this BIZTALK thing A: you need Biztalk.. you can download a trial version from
www.microsoft.com/biztalk Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Business Activity Service are used for Portal to configure business
processes and partner profiles, Maintain business partner profiles
for customers, suppliers, etc. and also to ntegrate with Windows SharePoint
Services and MS Office Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
HUmar work flow process would be used to capture human business activities
as a workflow and Integrate human workflow activities within an orchestration.
It also has a View workflow status in real time Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Guys...give me some more time I would answer all your queries...before
that I would like to complete my presentation so that its useful for
beginners who are new to BizTAlk Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
while Health & Activity tracking can be used to track the state
of events and view archived and live data. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
also it can be used to Monitor the health of business process operations.. abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: Can u explain the flow in the diagram http://www.microsoft.com/biztalk/images/bt_3.jpg A: it the entire flow of BizTalk Server messages. the message is collected
using the receive adapter. the receive pipeline converts the incoming
format into the XML. the XML message then gets stored in the message
box. from the message box, messages are picked up and processed. After
processing they are put back in the message box. the send pipeline
picks the message and converts the format to the outgoing format.
The send adapter then transmits it to the desired location. You can
configure a BTS server to act only as receive adapter or as message
box or send adapter. this is how BTS is able to scale to handle large
workloads Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
this HAT can be used through VS.Net for various above mentioned reasons abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: Could you please tell us where we can find exercises for
practicising
Bixtalk A:http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=9C64562C-3FA7-49BA-885E-82213D00776E&displaylang=en Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
I personelly feel many have question of real time implementation too....please
look here for all case studies Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): http://www.microsoft.com/biztalk/evaluation/casestudies/default_2004.asp Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: In the biztalk samples, i could fine only hard coded business rules
, how would i validate with database A: You can find some infor here http://www.microsoft.com/biztalk/techinfo/whitepapers/2004/business_rules.asp abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: Abishek give me ideas and integration scenarios for a meaningful
integration of pos with ERP A: well the POS would need to output the information in appropriate
format. I would assume that it is able to do this in a flat file format.
u consume this from BTS and then use BTS adapter to consume data from
ERP that you are using. you can enforce certain rules in the receive
pipeline by writing custom assemblies or by using Business Rules Engine Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: It gives me an error saying " Document not recognized and
it is in external format" but the document is converted to edi
format can any one say what is the problem A: HI....you can look here to solve u r queries http://www.covast.com/products/accelerator__2004.asp Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: Can any one out help me on EDI over biztalk 2004 A:http://www.covast.com/products/accelerator__2004.asp..
please visit here...also there is wonderful webcast for this here
http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/EventDetail.aspx?EventID=1032250812&Culture=en-US Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: Naveen right now i am working on a project were i have to convert
an xml into edi document 810 and vise versa A: please look here A: http://www.covast.com/products/accelerator__2004.asp..
please visit here...also there is wonderful webcast for this here
http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/EventDetail.aspx?EventID=1032250812&Culture=en-US Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: abhishek..u said the BTS will convert the receiving format into
XML..when it sends back the format...will it be the same as the receive
format? or should the business process / service be capable to convert
the BTS format A: After working on business processing and after making some decision,
or doing some other business logic, a document will be sent out of
the system. which again it would be deposited into the message box,
where it is pick up by a transport mechanism – again through
a subscription, formatted as necessary, then sent out. abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: abhishek..u said the BTS will convert the receiving format into
XML..when it sends back the format...will it be the same as the receive
format? or should the business process / service be capable to convert
the BTS format A: while sending back, in the message box message is persisted as
an XML with additional information. if you want to send out the XML
that is hardly the case, you will need to provide the schema based
on which the BTS will convert the XML to the output format. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: Hi friend, you have any idea about VC++.net? or any useful tutorial
or anything? or any link or etc., Sorry to ask this question here
but, I am not getting any useful details about it. Could you please
let me know at least where to I ask this quest A: I would suggest to visit Microsoft.com or post your question on
BDOT or CNUG user group to get more than one answer to your queries Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: What is BAS site? How can I create one? A: BAS means Business acitivity Services and you must have SharePoint
Services on a virtual server to create a Business Activity Services
(BAS) Web site abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: Hi friend, you have any idea about VC++.net? or any usefull tutorial
or anything? or any link or etc., Sorry to ask this question here
but, I am not getting any useful details about it. Could you please
let me know atleast where to I ask this quest A: not the correct forum!! try the Microsoft Newsgroups for
specific information. for tutorials etc. visit: http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/ Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: Biztalk & MQSeries can you compare? A: Both are altogether different technologies.... Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert): Q: What is the purpose of Business rules Engine in
Orchestrations? A: Business Rule Engine enables more business-oriented users to directly
create and modify sets of business rules. These rules are created
by using a tool called the Business Rule Composer, and then executed
directly by the engine. This technology is new in BizTalk Server 2004,
and it is one of the most interesting features in the product. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Hi Sen...you are welcome subhashini (Moderator):
Please email your queries to naveen at ksnaveen@hotmail.com abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator): Q: Biztalk & MQSeries can you compare? A: Both products are middleware servers. MQSeries are provided by
IBM and BTS is from Microsoft. Both engines have very good capabilities.
if you are looking for specific information, please request for the
scenario. subhashini (Moderator):
Thank you all for attending the session and hope this was informative. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Paresh..I think you can find more answer in Microsoft website subhashini (Moderator):
The chat transcripts are available Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Paresh if you have any specific question you can very well email to
me Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Thanks to all.... subhashini (Moderator): http://www.microsoft.com/india/communities/chat/Transcripts.aspx abhishek[MSFT] (Moderator):
Thanks everyone for attending subhashini (Moderator):
the chat transcripts are available at http://www.microsoft.com/india/communities/chat/Transcripts.aspx subhashini (Moderator):
The next chat scheduled is on Dec 29 subhashini (Moderator):
VB 2005 Language Enhancements
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Join the chat to discuss features like generic types, operator overloading,
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Chat Expert: Manoj G (MVP) subhashini (Moderator):
Have a great evening Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Thanks all.. Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Sai...you send me your question in mail I would answer you soon Naveen K S [Expert] (Expert):
Thanks to all and have a nice time a head
