Microsoft's
Vision for .NET and the role VS .NET plays in realising that vision
Host: Dilip Mistry - Director .NET & Developer Evangelism,
Microsoft India
January
31, 2002
KunalS: All right everybody
KunalS: We are today kicking off
KunalS: the very first in many more to come
Shrawan: yups
Saurabh: sure ... welcome Dilip !
KunalS: Technology chat sessions
DevenShah: Very good afternoon to you Dilip
KunalS: And I am very glad that it is being done by Dilip Mistry himself
Dilip: Hello Everyone...So what do we think about VS.NET
??
Saurabh: Kool !!
Shrawan: really exiting
DevenShah: its the best IDE i have worked on so far
KunalS: Sanjay how about you, what do you think?
Shrawan: something.......... major revolution
Dilip:
Are you sure you don't want a command line IDE
DevenShah:
Saurabh: Sometimes .. the command-line version comes in handy too
sanjay: Yes one of the best things to happen off late
Dilip:
So any C# users ?
Saurabh: I am !!
DevenShah: just started...
Shrawan: yes i am
KunalS: Why Dilip, for those who are fascinated by the Command Line
IDE....NET Framework offers that too
kishor: hello all
Kalyan: hi everybody
Saurabh: Yes... KunalS ... the command-line compilers are in-dispensable
!
DevenShah: my first question to Dilip: With the release of VS.NET
on Feb 13, 2002. Do you think the .net platform is COMPLETELY ready
to build mission-critical applications as Web Services. Specifically
in the area of security, transaction-support, reliability etc.
ĬGanesh has joined the conversation.
Dilip:
Its all relative.
Dilip: Often we ask for
the earth..and with most technology we can deliver...but it comes
at a cost
Shrawan: i have a Question
KunalS: But Dilip, over here, what is the cost you are talking about?
KunalS: Sure Sharawan...
Shrawan: but some technical stuff
Dilip: Web Services
is still evolving. VS.NET as a standards based tool has been ready
for a while. standards develop and so will VS.NET
DevenShah: i am on a dial-up line, so got disconnected and missed
last few answers
KunalS: Shrawan, we have a technical session at 4:30...we tk it on
then...
Shrawan: ok fine
Shrawan: coooooooool
DevenShah: By when will the first set .NET My Services (15 services)
be available for commercial use, I read in an article that it will
be fully available in the end of 2002, so just wanted to confirm it...
Dilip: All 15 ......we have .NET alerts to play
with now
Saurabh: Dilip - what about intilisense in-line scripted ASP.NET web
pages ?? Any idea when that might get supported ?
kishor: kalyan do u use .net for web based application?
kishor: or desktop applications?
Kalyan: .net can be used for both, So I do
DevenShah: is .NET alerts ready for commercial use?
Dilip:
I am sure we support intellisense in ASP.NET with VS.NET Projects
Saurabh: Yeha, I am talking about ASP.NET Projects created in VS.NET
.. but if I add inline-scripting to the ASP.NET pages instead of using
the code-behind pages I don't get intellisense !!
KunalS: Dilip, why dont you tell us with what plans MS has for promoting
VS .NET in India
Dilip: okay ...Saurabh...good
feedback...Anything else people want ?
Dilip:
Kunal - we want to make sure every developer in this land is aware
of VS.NET.....we will have multiple events throughout the country...we
will also do some activity online.....
Ganesh: and also dilip wanted to know once vs.net is installed in
india
Ganesh: how effectively will it be implemented
magi: Thats nice Dilip
DevenShah: MS Passport is a successfully implemented and a proven
Single-Sign-In technology. However the Project Liberty Alliance which
is still at the evolving stage is also gaining momentum bCoz of the
BIG organizations participating in the project. any comments?
magi: Dilip, to what extent the "WebService" technology that microsoft
is talking about is really compatible other technologies?
DotNeteXtreme: The VS.NET launch should be one of the mega events
in India, is VS.NET going to be given as free copies to the attendees
?
Dilip: All the signs are encouraging (I've been
looking at the order book )...VS 6.0 customers will move over very
quickly .....
kishor: hello Dillip
kishor: i want to use asp.net
Dilip: Magi - Webservices
by definition are XML standards based and so should interoperate with
any SOAP compliant client
kishor: so i installed microsoft .net framework sdk
Dilip:
Dotextereme - TBD - pls bring your credit card along
Saurabh: Suggestion: Currently the HTML Designer in VS.NET is very
bad, even general HTML tags get red underlined indicating something
is wrong.. but in reality the pages work correctly !
kishor: but when i want to run .aspx file it gibes an error message
that
magi: But i find the SOAP implementations of other technologies are
slightly different interms of usage and as well development
DotNeteXtreme: Yes we agree with magi, the SOAP implementation of
vendors differ a lot, when will this get standardized
Shrawan: even if u delete some control from u'r .ASPX page ..... the
backend code is still there
Shrawan: i think this has to be care Of
Saurabh: eg: put a
tag in the
section of an HTML document and you will get red line!! (PS: I am using
VS.NET Final!)
magi: One simple case could be that i found a lot of problems which using
some of the webservices published in the www.XMethods.com
DotNeteXtreme: Dilip, one burning issue is ".NET on Linux", how far is MS
aggressive in doing it
magi: Especially with those webservices with the "Apache SOAP" implementation
Saurabh: magi keep in mind that many of the Web Services created on XMethods
have been created long time back .. many standards have changed since..
so you can't guarantee those web services support the latest SOAP specs
!!
magi: I understand saurabh.. but do u really think that the SOAP implementations
of all the vendors are going to be really based on the W3C standards..?
Dilip: Shrawan - okay the code is generated on the fly.....
and we may be resuing the code al calling other code modules....
Dilip: if every time we delete a control we delete the code
we could have recipe for disaster as we lose our code.
Kalyan: I am back
DotNeteXtreme: Guys Guys, lets make way for Mr. Dilip and concentrate on
getting some vital info from him
Kalyan: what is the vision for Dotnet enabled devices in the near future??
Saurabh: magi: If the Vendors don't support the standards, then I guess
they are out of the game .. who would use them .. you see SOAP 1.1. spec
should be the point where all vendors might come togeather ..
DevenShah: go ahead DotNetExtreme
Dilip: Many devices are .NET enabled today...but to get the
fully benefit from .NET we are looking for devices with some variation of
the CF
Dilip: Now the CF is going on lots of places. You should check
out the latest version of WindowsCE.NET...which has CCF
Kalyan: Would we be having a compact framework for other platforms like
Palm OS?? I mean the CLR and etc?
Kalyan: Oh great . Thanx dilip
dk_krishnan: Dilip, this is slightly out of topic but Is Microsoft planning
to start a development centre in bangalore for .NET technologies
DotNeteXtreme: Dilip, one burning issue is ".NET on Other Platforms", how
far is MS agressive in doing it
Dilip: So if you want to build a phone, PDA, TV, Console,
..fridge to run your .NET app pls go ahead...
KunalS: Dilip, DotNeteXtreme has a burning query
Dilip: Why stop at Palm OS? Our vision is clear that .NET
will appear on many platforms
Kalyan: I think the vision of .net should bring in dotnet runtimes for other
platforms also magi: Sourabh: by the moment all vendors come together to
agree on SOAP1.1, SOAP 2.0 will emerge with some more additions and changes
Kalyan: Yeah,
DevenShah: Dilip, at this stage do u think there is a possibility of Microsoft
(Passport) joining the Project Liberty Alliance?
Dilip: Kalyan - Would you like to build dotrun time on other
platforms for us?
Kalyan: Can anybody throw some light on Project Liberty alliance???
KunalS: Dilip, please explain the Liberty Alliance and MS stand with respect
to that
DotNeteXtreme: Dilip, thats what other projects like protable.net have done,
but we could expect MS to provide a more stable and optimised runtime
Dilip: There is a lot of noise around identity services. It
is still early days for these services. We think Passport is great, pls
check out
KunalS: But will Microsoft join the Liberty Alliance Dilip?
DevenShah: I too feel that Passport is way ahead from any other identity
services
DevenShah: that is exactly wot i wanna know
Anand: But will Passport really be useful for intranet projects. I doubt,
unless a company can host a passport server inhouse...
DotNeteXtreme: Well what we understand is there are already lot of passport
implementation live
Kalyan: Passport is adopted by many web sites. and You do not require a
dedicated server to enable passport services
Saurabh: Dilip: There were reports that MS was persuing the development
of .NET on FreeBSD and update on that ??
Dilip: Passport vs Liberty ? My own personal view is that
like many new technologies often the success will be down to industry adoption
and not the technology per se
DevenShah: Can you share some information about companies in India that
are really building 'significant & live' solutions using the .net platform?
Dilip: So in my opinion Passport wins liberty hands down....300+
sites, millions of users, and developers love it
Kalyan: hi deven there are lot of companies doing that
DevenShah: but are the details avaiable..
Kalyan: there was a contest for XML - webservices where many companies participated.
More info check out this community links
DevenShah: i had participated too
Dilip: Devenshah - All of the 'major' ISV's & software Services
companies are all working on .NET products, service offerings.....we even
have
DotNeteXtreme: Dilip, what is the market projection in terms of $ for .NET
india
KunalS: ISV = Independent Software Vendors
DevenShah: Is Microsoft participating in the NASSACOM 2002 event in Feb?
KunalS: interms of a pavilion
DevenShah: any specific reason that can be known to us for not participating?
DotNeteXtreme: Why Kunal, We remember seeing u last time in the Microsoft
camp last 2001
KunalS: but we are speaking at the conference. MS has a keynote session
Dilip: DotExterme - well its like looking into a crystal ball.
Suffice to say we are investing millions & Headcount into .NET India
Dilip: As developers do you have a view on IPR ?
Saurabh: that's great!
KunalS: IPR => Intellectual Property Rights
Saurabh: yes ...
Dilip: sorry about the TLA Kunal
Kalyan: hey whats TLA???
KunalS: TLA = Three Letter Acronym!
Kalyan: hahahahahhahaha
DotNeteXtreme: ok, can you validate the figures give by yahooboz saying
.NET will generate 35 billion $ by 2003
KunalS: Dilip, that is a lot of money. Will .NET make $ 35 Billion by 2003?
Kalyan: We all hope so
Dilip: some of this is science (hence were investing) ...but
a lot of this is about having faith & conviction in what we are doing.
KunalS: Friends, back to the question that Dilip asked
Dilip: We did the same with Windows, IE...
KunalS: how do you feel about Intellectual Property Rights...
KunalS: ?
Saurabh: very true.. just see the amount of participation in the .NET Beta
process
Kalyan: Why cant we implement so commercial feature with MSN messenger as
an implementation of .NET capabilities
Kalyan: like banking, shopping etc in INDIA
DotNeteXtreme: eXcuse us , but IPR in what context
Dilip: Whatever the $$$ projections...we will stick at it......we STRONGLY
believe the internet experience has only just started
Saurabh: Dilip: IPR - is one of the biggest hurdle with .NET My Service
implementation ! Kunal has earlier on the forums posted how MS is trying
to keep the user data safe, but still reports of "security breaches" make
the scene very scary!!
KunalS: IPR implies - That you invest in some commodity, may or may not
be monetarily, but largely intellectually
DotNeteXtreme: very true, WEbServices is propagating the concept of "Renting
Softwares" and we already see them happening
Dilip: IPR ....I've been reading a lot about the need to open
source SW. Lots of debate.
KunalS: Your intellectual capacity has been invested in a product...
DevenShah: I COMPLETELY AGREE with u Dilip.. The internet revolution has
just begun & it will get better & bigger
Kalyan: I do not see how open source can solve the IPR issues
KunalS: should that product be be safeguarded from misuse...same way we
protect a commodity like a car from being stolen..
DotNeteXtreme: hmmm now that makes sense kunal
Kalyan: Yeah to safeguard the car we do not expose how the car is manufactured
Dilip: I kinda worry. SW is taking off in a big way in India....open
source & poor IPR laws could undermein all of the hard work that you guys
do
DevenShah: Dilip, can u give us your personal eMail ID?
Kalyan: Hey Dilip India has its own IT Act. But I agree with the you on
the implementation part of it
KunalS: Deven, you may post all queries directed to Dilip in the forums
Saurabh: but when we develop .NET My Services enabled solutions for clients
- clients have one big question, what if the data gets stolen due to a security
breach - whos going to pay ?? Any comments ?
KunalS: Dilip shall respond to them
Kalyan: There is Lot of stuff there in the IT act about IPR issues etc etc.
Saurabh: Yes, Kalyan but still that act is very immature, it does not fully
recognise all kinds of transactions that occur online !!
KunalS: Saurabh, the implementation of .NET MY Services does not imply parting
with your data
Saurabh: Dilip: What are the plans to introduce VS.NET into user education
system ??
Dilip: Saurabh...well to date we have not had any 'security
breach' on Passport (although many have tried ).....
KunalS: The idea behind .NET MY Services is a consolidated point of action
for multiple services...
KunalS: making life simple for users..
Kalyan: Dilip- what is Microsoft's vision with respect to wireless devices,
Pocket PC, MIS in INDIA.
Dilip: I have MASSIVE plans for academia. I've been meeting
many colleges/universities over the last two weeks......
Dilip: You won
Saurabh: That's true Dilip - but security holes have been found... Just
asec I will see if I can recollect the correct link !
Dilip: You won't be able to leave college without getting
involved in .NET one way or another....
Saurabh: Kunal: But data (both personal and financial) will be stored on
MS servers right ??
Saurabh: That's good Dilip - since off late of collages have been far far
behind !!
Dilip: Saurabh...I have the links
Saurabh: Dilip: then, its just luck that some good guy found the hole and
reported it to MS ... that condition could have been reverse !
KunalS: Saurabh, the idea is - in absence of .NET Services, if you shop
in 10 places, you gv the your info at 10 places..
DotNeteXtreme: Dilip, what other services in MyServices is MS is planning
to implement KunalS: if you have .NET Services, then the info lies in one
place and those 10 places access if from the central source..
KunalS: now you can logically decide, in which scenario your info is safer...
Dilip: Saurabh...but for every good guy...there are multiple
bad guys and hence we are always renewing our security. Its a never ended
battle....
shishu: hi
Saurabh: Kunal: You are right - Central Storage has got its merits (I don't
doubt that) - But then it becomes a central point of attack for all the
bad guys ... and one attack and lead to a huge mess !!
DotNeteXtreme: Passport really proves to be of nice utility, there are a
few security issues which we are sure MS will overcome
KunalS: Hello All...
Saurabh: Dilip: I know no application is fully secure - but try explaining
that to clients .... aggghhh
KunalS: This session with Dilip has come to an end...
KunalS: But pls dont leave yet, more coming up
KunalS: I would like to thank Dilip for his valuable time..
DotNeteXtreme: Thank u Dilip
Dilip: okay guys I've got to go. Lets do this again sometime.......See
you at the VS.NET events.....
Saurabh: Nice chating with you Dilip - would love to talk more later !
KunalS: and any queries to Dilip may be posted in the forums...
