Transcript: Internet Explorer, February 10, 2005
Published: February 10, 2005
Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity
Introduction
Dave_MS (Expert):
Hi. I'm Dave Massy, I work on the Program Management team on IE. I'm looking forward to chatting with you today. We aren't going to be able to discuss future versions and features today but we are happy to discuss currently supported versions.
TomMS (Expert):
Hi, I'm Tom, test lead for parts of networking and security. Glad to see you all here this morning.
Phoebe_MS (Expert):
Hi, I am Phoebe I am Test Lead for Internet Explorer Networking. Happy to chat with you all today.
Start of Chat
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: I'll be in hotmail and click on "print view" and all I get is the triangle yellow exclamation mark. Will try to print direct and I get a "script error" screen. I tried another browser and didn't have those problems
A: Hi PrimeTime, It's difficult to say what the issue is there. Often Hotmail will serve different content. I've seen the situation where there the servers are overloaded.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: i want to know if microsoft ever intends on allowing its customers to remove Internet Explorer and provide access to the website with other browsers like firefox
A: Hi bad_moon, Internet Explorer is part of the Windows Operating system and parts of the Os realy on it being present. We consider browing to be an essential part of Windows. While you can use other browsers we do not allow Internet Explorer to be removed as this would severely break funcitonality of the operating system.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: The avg. consumer is an obvious target of the future IE, but what kind of focus does MS have on the corporate user? Can we expect to see more features related to business use? Perhaps a forked browser, one for home use (focused on UI and simplicity) and
A: Hi KevG, We don't intend to have different versions of IE for different markets at this time. We do however allow people to customise and configure IE to their liking. This includes allowing administrators in teh corporate space to control IE through Group Policy.
Phoebe_MS (Expert):
Q: On a site I manage, pages with form submissions recently have been returning "blank pages" after hitting submit using IE 6. Only seems to happen during a form submission, not a link to a URL...
A: Have you changed any of your default settings in Toos | Internet Options...?
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: I'm sure this problem is known, but here goes: There is no way to position a layer above a drop down SELECT box; z-index doesn't work. I've heard this is due to the combo box actually being a WIN32 "window," any comments on this problem?
A: Hi kevg, we're certainly aware of this problem. I can't promise when we might be able to addess this but we are aware that this is a nasty issue. Because the Select element is currently implemented as a windowed control it will nto honor the z-index as other elements will.
Phoebe_MS (Expert):
Q: oops sorry - What causes these blank pages and is there a work-around either client side or server side? The common link seems to be these forms use J(ava)script submit, and since it is a "packaged product" can't really change the code...
A: Have you switched to HTTPS form submission recently?
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Any plans of making a truly integrated JavaScript debugger, a la Firefox's Venkman plugin (if you haven't tried venkman, it's quite awesome, even allows you to step through js)?
A: Hi kevg, We currently have a JScript debugger that you can enable and use. There are lots of tools that are available through IE addons. we are certainly looking to improve in thsi area though.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: so you are telling me that there is no way that you company will allow it to be removed or make inactive in the future for those customers that hate it and find it very invasive?
A: bad_moon, Since Windows XP SP1 you have been able to replace IE as the default browser. You cannot remove IE from teh OS as it will break the OS. It really is that simple.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Can you point me to that javascript debugger plugin? I quickly searched microsoft.com and I thought I might as well as just ask...
A: Hi kevg, Take a look at http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2004/10/26/247912.aspx
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: just as i thought as usual microsoft was sued by government for not allowing the customer to replace IE completly but it does allow them to use others without crashing system. I know it is a big part of the system but i am trying to get it across
A: bad_moon, I'm not clear on what you are saying. As I said before we believe browsing is an essential part of the Operating System and as parts of the OS and 3rd party applications rely on it it cannot be removed. The issue with the government was settled on that basis.
Dave_MS (Expert):
If you have any questions for the IE team please enter it though question facility. We've got three members of the IE team here to chat with you.
Phoebe_MS (Expert):
Q: but that link re: blank pages and 408s seemed oddly familiar so I tried to at least do a custom error page for 408 as a work around - but since it is a client waiting on a response from the server - seems as if these error pages are generated withing IE
A: Since you are getting a 408, which is a timeout, you may not be allowing enough time for the request to process. You can change your Keep Alive time. Here is an article on how to do it: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/813827
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Thanks for the link. Also, is there any plan of making a .NET SDK for IE BHO development?
A: Hi kevg, We're certainly looking at how to allow .net to be used more with IE. Thsi shoudl be possible today using interop but we could certainly look at making it easier. Is there a particular scenario you are interested in enabling?
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Could someone help me understand why MDM.exe launches even though I have script debugging turned off in IE Tools-->Options-->Advanced?
A: Hi Matt, Can you provide repro steps. I'm not familiar with MDM so I don't knwo if this is by design or not.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: I'd like: IE specific volume control that controls also processes started by IE (flash etc). There should be some sort of object/inheritance based volume mixing, i expect LH to be better than Tiger in audio aspect. Also more control over active scripting..
A: Hi androidi, That's certainly a good idea. However I can see this as being difficult to implement. As an ActiveX control has access to full system resources there is no way for IE to control what happens here. I agree it can be annoying and is somethign we shoudl look at.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Not really any particular scenario, C# is just plain easier ;) I'm too lazy to write PInvoke wrappers, so I just go with C++. It would be nice if there was maybe just a simple .NET class like Microsoft.Interop.IE which provided the interop wrappers.
A: Yes we shoudl certainly look at that. I sometimes wonder if allowing BHOs to be written more easily is a good idea though as the funcitonality while useful can so easily be used maliciously :-)
Phoebe_MS (Expert):
Q: I saw this article too: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;555027 - re: Internet Explorer open with a blank page instead of web site -
A: This KB article only has to do with the initial opening of a web page. Not during a Post.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: I don't know what steps caused it, in fact. I didn't have MDM.exe as a normal process, but at some point after installing Office 2003, it started becoming something launched during startup. In KB321410,
A: Matt, I'll have to look into that. I'm not sure why MDM woudl refer to the script debugging settings.
Phoebe_MS (Expert):
Q: I am trying to keep my questions limited - but it seems as if IE is not liking Apache or vice versa maybe
A: We generally play nicely with appache, however you may have found a corner cases scenario. However this seems like a fairly common scenario that could happen on all web servers.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Any thought about allowing the loading of ActiveX controls to be cancelled? The classic scenario is Acrobat Reader loading - for example, clicking a link you didn't know was a PDF, but not really caring so much as to let Reader load -just a way to cancel?
A: Kevg, I think that sort of thing woudl be up to Acrobat to expose functionality to allow it to be cancelled. Without the ActiveX Control supporting it I'm not sure what more we would be able to do from teh IE side of things.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Dave_MS: Very simple solution, future "activex" etc flash plugins must be managed and use special audio interface or they will not even load without loading some "legacy plugin interface", just to make sure developers get the message to use new interface..
A: androidi, that might be a simple solution to type but it certainly isn't an easy solution to implement :-) As we move forward we're certainly looking at constratints in this area.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Well I'm sure the IE Engine has the ability to just kill the process? Of course, it's not as nice as that functionality being built into the API, where Reader could register a callback for a cancel event. A simple cancel button (or the Info Bar) maybe
A: kevg, It's not quite that simple as ActiveX controls are in the same process of IE. We could certainly force the unload of a control if it is implemented correctly. However I think such UI might be confusing to the average user that already gets confused about what is happening.
TomMS (Expert):
Q: Are there people in your group who blog about IE? Reading blogs from those who make the product is very cool!
A: many of us post actively to http://blogs.msdn.com/ie
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Dave_MS, thanks for listening, and hopefully being able to pass it on to someone to look into??
A: Matt, I'll do my best to follow up on the KB> In the meantime teh newsgroups might be a good place to ask as well.
TomMS (Expert):
Q: Getting 404 error when trying to login to a particular website... Lot of people say its spyware...I have run spybot and adaware and this hasn't cleaned it up...any other ideas
A: That's the page not found error, you're sure they haven't just rearranged the site without setting up redirects?
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Will it be ever possible for Windows Messenger to appear in IE like the search bar?
A: Hi Dan, I don't see why it couldn't be hosted there but I think the experience could be confusing. I frequently have more than one IE instance open but just want a single instance of Windows Messenger running in the background. is there a scenario you are thinking of?
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Do you think there's any possibility technically for a reputable site to load up an activex to xpsp2 users computer which has the default settings? Suppose here that they would not use any hack to load it as they are reputable site.
A: Hi androidi, IN Windwos XP SP2 we undertook work to ensure that a user could not inadvertantly install unwanted software. I'm not aware of any way around that work at this time.
Phoebe_MS (Expert):
Q: Thanks Phoebe -I'll take a look at the keep alive time... is that 408 error html page in IE? if so, how can we change it? we want to be able to know when users are having server connectivity problems -
A: You can customize your error page on the server side, this KB gives you more details on that: http://support.microsoft.com/?id=834452
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Any thoughts of allowing a user to view cached pages without them being marked as "Offline?" Sometimes I read something, then go off with my laptop somewhere without Wi-Fi, and it would be nice to click an item in my History and see a cached version.
A: this is actually very tricky to get the correct user experience on which is why we prompt. I do think there are probably improvements that coudl be made though.
TomMS (Expert):
Q: TomMS: No...I am trying to login to Excelsior College website as a student and sometimes I can login or sometimes it happens right away...Excelsior techsupport say its spyware on my computer
A: Try our new antispyware software at http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=321cd7a2-6a57-4c57-a8bd-dbf62eda9671&DisplayLang=en If that (and what you've already run) don't find anything, you should have Excelsior take a closer look at the sites you're navigating to
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Will the next version of IE comply better with CSS standards?
A: we can't discuss future features adn schedule at this time. we are aware that we need to do work in the area of more consistent standards support.
Dave_MS (Expert):
I'd like to encourage everyone to check they have automatic updates enabled http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2004/10/26/247912.aspx There were a set of updates released earlier this week that everyone shoudl have installed.
Phoebe_MS (Expert):
Q: is there a way to change the time out or maybe redirecting to a custom error page in IE say by preloading it into the cache other than server side
A: you can use custom error pages on the server page, however you will have to turn off "Display Friendly Error Messages" on the client side.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Perhaps something as simple as a context menu in the History bar, so that I could right click and click "View cached version (if any)," so that it is not default behavior nor obtrusive, but exists
A: thanks kev. that's a suggestion I'll pass on.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Has anyone had any issues with the updates released this week? Has everyone installed them?
Phoebe_MS (Expert):
Q: is there something with Javascript form submit and IE compatibility issues that could be keeping the request from the server?
A: There are no KB's published on this, however if you see any issues with Javascript then you should work them on that issue.
Phoebe_MS (Expert):
Q: we are running a fairly common elearning packaged product that uses apache server and says it is compatible with IE - but there is nothing in the logs - just looks like the client dropped connectivity
A: Then Keep Alive may be the answer for this.
Andy Q (Moderator):
For those new to the chat, today's topic is Internet Explorer
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: Experts: What gets you excited about the future IE? Obviously you can't speak of specifics, but the browser is such a simple tool (and should be) - how much more is there to do and what directions might it take (in general of course)?
A: Hi Kev, That's a great question. I can't speak for the others but we certainly have a sense of purpose. We see browsing as an essential part of the OS. I think we have a little work to do to make sure the current offering is up to date as we haven't done a full release since 2001. However that's jsut short term. Longterm I think about how we might want to be browsing in five or ten years time. What will the user experience be like? What sort of content will we have? I think there's plenty of scope for improvement. We work on the most used piece of software in the world! That's a pretty heavy responsibility but I wouldn't want to work on anything else.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Last eight minutes of the chat. Feel free to ask any further questions.
TomMS (Expert):
Q: TomMS: I appreciate your advice...one last thing about this issue if I use Mozilla's Firefox I don't have any trouble accessing Excelsior's website...So this makes me more confused because I would preferr IE. Is there possibly a setting in IE that I change
A: well we have a ton of settings :) but without a diagnosis I'd just be pointing you to random ones. If you've installed any security patches recently (such as the one we released this week), those may have shut down behavior that Excelsior's sites rely on, but that other browsers continue to tolerate. Really you need to work with your own tech support to figure out what's going on
Andy Q (Moderator):
Great questions today folks! As Dave says, we have 8 minutes left so feel free to ask that burning question.
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: is there a way to get a transcript of this chat -
A: The transcripts will be published up at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/transcripts/default.mspx It may take a few days but it will get there :-)
Andy Q (Moderator):
5 minutes left!
Dave_MS (Expert):
The transcripts will be published up at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/transcripts/default.mspx It may take a few days but it will get there :-)
Dave_MS (Expert):
Q: In manage-addins if you see a browser extension with no information except GUID, what should you do? I do not know if it is spyware or the microsoft user experience background feedback tool.. Does MS install some extensions to IE?
A: If the publisher is unknown I'd recommend you disable the extension. We are trying to work with software developers to encourage them to publish useful informationp to go in this space.
Dave_MS (Expert):
IE certainly installs some extensions but we do try adn ensure that we are teh publisher so that you know exactly where the software comes from. I strongly recommend anyone use caution when installing software and make sure they trust teh pubkisher.
Andy Q (Moderator):
you can find the transcript of this chat at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/transcripts/default.mspx in about a week!
TomMS (Expert):
Thanks to everyone for coming today
Dave_MS (Expert):
Thanks everyone for a fun chat. Look forward to seeing you here next month.
Andy Q (Moderator):
To find upcoming Expert zone events please go to http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/default.mspx
Andy Q (Moderator):
I'd like to thank both the guests and the experts for their participation today! great chat!
TomMS (Expert):
Q: Its just strange cause I have not approved to install any "Research" extension..
A: The Research button is something new to XPSP2 but not something IE ships. I believe it's an Office extension.
TomMS (Expert):
again, thanks to everyone for coming
Phoebe_MS (Expert):
Thank you everyone for chatting, hope to see you during the next IE chat.
