Windows Internet Explorer 8 Expert Zone Chat (November 13, 2008)
Chat Topic: Windows Internet Explorer 8 Expert Zone Chat
Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008
Please note: Portions of this transcript have been edited for clarity.
Introductions:
Daniel (Moderator):
Hello and thanks for coming to our Internet Explorer 8 beta chat for November. Before we get started, I'd like to have our chat Experts introduce themselves...
Adam [MSFT] (Expert):
Hi, I’m Adam and I am an intern working on the IE Compatibility team.
Allison [MSFT] (Expert):
Hi, I’m Allison and I have been working on the Technical Beta Program.
Frank [MSFT] (Expert):
Hi, I'm Frank and I work on the IE8 User Interface
JP [msft] (Expert):
Hola! JP is my name and I'm the Accessibility PM for IE.
JP [msft] (Expert):
Hola! JP is my name and I'm the Accessibility PM for IE.
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Hi Everyone! My name is Kristen and I work on the IE Feedback and Release team. As a reminder, this will be our last chat of 2008. Please look for us to start up the chats again in January 2009.
Tony [MSFT] (Expert):
Hi, I'm Tony, and I work on IE Developer Experience.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Hi, I am a program manager on the IE User Experience team and own such features as Zoom, High DPI, New Tab Page, and Manage Add-ons. Glad to be here!
Start of chat:
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: Will there be differences between ie8 on vista and on windows 7?
A: The bits we ship on Win7 vs. Vista vs. XP are virtually the same, but we do take advantage of specific features of each individual operating system.
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: i cannot see the menu on my McAfee program though it is supposed to be working properly
A: Hi Michelle! We've been working with McAfee on any compatiblity issues with IE8. We are aware of this specific issue specifically.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: I have a web editor which will only work on IE6. Now I need to take IE7 off my computer and in stall IE6 BUT I can't seem to find a location to download this older version of IE. I hope one of you can direct me to such a site. Thanks.
A: What operating system are you using? Vista ships with IE7 and you can't install IE6 over that. On XP, if you uninstall IE7, you will get IE6 back.
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: For those of us running Windows 7 pre beta bits, will we be able to install final IE8 code on that OS, or will we only be able to use the included build of IE8?
A: You will only be able to use the included build of IE8 in the Win 7 pre beta bits.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: "we do take advantage of specific features of each individual operating system" No more details? :-(
A: Hey Lionel. One example that was demo
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: "we do take advantage of specific features of each individual operating system" No more details? :-(
A: One example which was demo
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: "On XP, if you uninstall IE7, you will get IE6 back." - uh, not if you install SP3 in the interrum, right? Or do I have that wrong?
A: That's correct once you install SP3 you can't uninstall IE 7.
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: Final Question: Why on earth is the Paste option removed from the text entry box on this chat?... it is very anoying.
A: What version of chat manager are you running on? Mine is there :)
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Q#S_W_1.) What will the next release be (Beta 3, RC1, or RTM) seriously we need to know.
A: Hi Steve! How are you? We haven't announced the next public milestone for IE8. Are schedule is driven by build quality which we use feedback from the community to help drive.
Frank [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Will ie7 & 8 run side-by-side, as opposed to ie6 & 7?
A: Sorry - There is no supported MS solution for running IE8 and IE7 side-by-side on the same machine; I use Virtual PC to run IE7 and IE8 at the same time on my machine.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: "we do take advantage of specific features of each individual operating system" No more details? :-(
A: Sorry about that. One example that was demoed at PDC is how individual tabs are viewable in the Win7 Super Bar. Also, touch integration was demoed as well. You can check it out at: <http://microsoftpdc.com/>
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: Can you guys explain the relationship between tabs and processIDs? I've seen that for only one tab (the first one) IE creates two processes, one for the main window and one for the tab; however now in Vista/WS2008 I only see one proc regardless of the tabs
A: To clarify you are saying that Vista/WS2008 with IE 8 is only bringing up one proc when started?
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Will be there a Beta 3 oder RC 1? If yes, when it will be available :D?
A: Hi Stefan. We have not announced the next public milestone for IE8. We really are evaluating build quality to drive our product release. Feedback provided by the IE community is very much a part of this process.
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: Any thoughts on adding some basic clipboard actions to the accelerators? It'd be handy to highlight text, mouseover accelerator tip, and copy (no right-click).
A: Are you talking about highlighting text on the preview dialog?
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: Q#S_W_7.) Internally has there been ANY IMPROVEMENT since Beta2 on the UI CHROME issues? (Many dialogs in XP show Win95 styling STILL, 12 years later (e.g. file uploads)
A: Hey Steve. We are aware of some old styling and attempting to update them. Can you please submit bugs on them?
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: "Will ie7 & 8 run side-by-side, as opposed to ie6 & 7?" - if the concern is CSS rendering issues, in compatibility mode IE8 is, essentially, IE7, correct?
A: Viewing pages in compatibility mode is essentially the same as viewing it in IE7 as far as CSS is concerned. There are some slight JavaScript differences between Compat Mode and actual IE7 though.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: Q#S_W_2.) Internally has the WINDOW.ONRESIZE bug been fixed? (IT DOES NOT FIRE in IE8B2)
A: We are aware of this issue and are addressing it. Thanks for the heads up!
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Will there be support for XHR in IE Developer tools like in Firebug? That is the only feature missing for me.
A: For network tracing, tools like Fiddler or Netmon are available. We've heard this feedback on Dev Tools and have it logged for consideration in future versions of IE.
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Re: Q14, can you at least indicate whether or not the next public release will be the RTM... many people are under the impression it will be, and I'm one of the devs that will go balistic if it is. (pls confirm that this is NOT the case)
A: A typical release cycle includes beta and RC milestones prior to a RTM release.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: Q#S_W_5.) Internally has the COMPATIBILTY MODE settings/behavior been fixed? (2+ sites on the same domain can't have different settings in IE8B2)
A: Hey Steve. That is not a bug but is rather by design. We believe that it is easier on the users to opt-in an entire domain rather than each individual page. Of course, the developer of the pages in the domain can opt-in individual pages to specific browser modes using meta tags.
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: How do I uninstall only SP3
A: This blgo post should help :) <http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/05/05/ie-and-xpsp3.aspx>
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: We saw a difference between IE7 and IE8 emulating IE7 while using the jQuery library. Specifically the html() method of jQuery. How closely are you testing IE7 emulation mode? How is IE7 emulation accomplished?
A: Can you be more specific? Do you know where the script is failing in the html() method?
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: That blog post gives me a page not found message.
A: It shouldn't?? The blog server performance is sometimes slow. Here is the link again: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/05/05/ie-and-xpsp3.aspx
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: How do I can create for every Tab 1 process? I can remember that you changed this behavior to 3 tabs = 1 process...
A: You can't. It will try to always hold 3 tabs, except if the tab keeps crashing and then we will create an entire process just to handle that misbehaving page. Here is a link to more documentation outlining this: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/beta/readiness/developers-existing.aspx#lcie
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: re: jQuery html() We were using that method to set some text in an element. In IE7 the text would not show up, in IE8 emulating IE7 the text would show up. I don't have a good repro right now. When I do, I'll file a bug.
A: It would be great if you could file a bug with a a reduced repro. Thanks!
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: How do I uninstall only SP3
A: This article outlines how to do it: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/950249
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: re: "opt-in an entire domain" - Does that include sub-directories and third-level domains? Or can you only opt-in to compatibility mode at the second-level domain?
A: Currently you can only opt-in an entire domain.
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: This blog post URL failed because the resulting link you sent is inclusing the >> chars as part of the link.
A: The blog server performance is sometimes slow. Here is the link again: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/05/05/ie-and-xpsp3.aspx
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: Can you please talk a little about improvements in JS execution speed and DOM manipulation speed. Webkit and Gecko seem to be focusing on this
A: Performance in the browser is high priority for us. We will be working on improving performance in all parts of the browser, including JS execution and DOM manipulation, up until final release. Thanks!
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: Peter: when I go to that site it only mentions the service pack. Is IE6 included in that service pack?
A: No, SP3 includes IE 7.
Allison [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: I have submitted some issues in the forum, but there is no fix mentioned, how do we know that these issues are being addressed?
A: If you wish to submit a bug to the IE Team, then you can join the Technical Beta program. Please send me your email address and we will send you an invite.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: the chat is inserting a space and breaking that URL. He needs to copy&paste it and remove the space by hand. Maybe you should fix your chat thing so it doesn't do that. ;-)
A: Thanks for the heads up. We'll check it out.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: How are the styles ordered in the Web Developer toolbar? Seems backwards - least specific on top, have to scroll to see more specific styles which are most relevant.
A: Yes, this is correct. You can also use Trace Styles to look at just the styles that are applied. Thanks for the feedback!
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: Q#S_W_6.) Internally has there been ANY IMPROVEMENT since Beta2 on the UI CUSTOMIZABILITY? (Can toolbars be merged? Does cascading flow to the right)
A: The user interface is pretty much locked down at this point and don't expect to make many changes, but more UI customizability is something we will definitely be discussing during IE Next planning. Thanks!
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: Hm... why Accelerators doesn't work here in the chat, when I highlite some text? I mean: I highlite some text and no Accelerator-Icon appear...
A: You are running IE 8, correct?
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Re: Q22, bugs were filed in IE7 feedback, and IE8 feedback, all have been declined or left untouched, this is nothing new.
A: Steve - We make every effort to review feedback filed for IE through MS connect. We keep all feedback for consideration in any IE version. Are there specific bugs you are referring to?
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: I am new at this, but I have a problem in logging on to a secure site. I am using E8 beta. I had the problem in E7 also. The problem exists in only one site, Bank of America. I have not had a problem with any other sight. Sorry if I step on any toes.
A: Do you have cookies enabled?
Tony [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: But I'm still interested in how IE7 emulation works and how it's being tested. Blog posts? White papers? Anything?
A: You may find some helpful information in this blog post (http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/06/10/introducing-ie-emulateie7.aspx) and at the Internet Explorer Compatibility Center (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/cc405106.aspx).
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: Is any one going to help me. If not can someone tell be what to do to solve the problem. Which by the way when the system goes to error the following is what is produced. "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage"
A: Is that the error you are getting when going to Bank of America?
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: I have changed all of them, so that is not the problem
A: What have you changed?
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: JP: Yes. Check it out yourself? Mark a few text here in chat, and see if the Accelerator-Icon appear...
A: I'm not accessing the chat through a browser. i'm using a custom tool. Let me give it a try.
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Daniel - I see that they are aware of the issue...what is happening with it? Will there be an update later or should i not be concerned? should I roll back to a different ie version?
A: Hi Michelle, (Daniel is a chat moderator and doesn't work with the IE team :)) - For IE8 Beta 2, the only option to work around the issue with McAfee is to uninstall IE8 Beta 2. I sincerely hope that if you do uninstall Beta 2 for this issue that you will install the next publicly availble build of IE8. We understand the frustration issues like this create for end users like yourself. We are glad this issue was discovered in the Beta cycle of IE8. Instructions for uninstall can be found in this post: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/08/27/upgrading-to-internet-explorer-8-beta-2.aspx (the post is broken down by operating system)
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: IE8 (final) Include Spell Checker?
A: Beta 2 is essentially feature complete. There are a number of IE add-ons that do a great job of spell checking. Please check out http://www.ieaddons.com
Allison [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: I've searched connect but haven't found any bug reports of this particular issue. I have noticed IE8 beta 2 does not keep me logged in to websites when I ask that they should (cookies). Is this a known bug?
A: If you wish to submit a bug to the IE Team, then you can join the Technical Beta program. Please send me your email address and we will send you an invite.
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: JP: Take a machine running IE8 Beta2, visit the chat und check it out ;)?
A: That's what I was doing :) And you are right Accelerators are not showing up. This is because the chat room control is a custom control hosted within IE 8. It limits the functionality of the browser. The same way Paste is disabled from the context menu.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: are the JS differences you mentioned between IE7 and IE8's IE7 compat mode intentional, or bugs, or something else? Will they be clearly documented?
A: You might find the Windows App Compat Toolkit useful in addressing this issue. You can find the toolkit here: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/appcompat/aa905102.aspx and the related whitepaper here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc994321(VS.85).aspx
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: I know I am probably in the wrong conversation but PLEASE can one of you tell me where I can download IE6?
A: IE6 is the default browser for Windows XP. If you are using XP, uninstalling IE7 will revert you to IE6. If you have XPSP3 installed with IE7, there are special instructions for downgrading from IE7 to IE6: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/05/05/ie-and-xpsp3.aspx IE6 is not a supported browser for Windows Vista.
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: This is confusing. Yes Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage that is the error
A: Are you doing this from home on a desktop or do you have a laptop? If it is a laptop, have you tried connecting to Bank of America from somewhere else besides your home?
Adam [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: How do I stop my computer from locking itself every few minutes when it is not touched?
A: There are several factors that could be affecting your experience. Unfortunately, we cannot address your specific issue in a chat.
Allison [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Here is a link to a http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?query=timeout&dg=microsoft.public.internetexplorer.beta&cat=en_us_2BAF8EC5-645C-4477-A380-0F1CF6C102F9&lang=en&cr=us&pt=&catlist=&dglist=&ptlist=&exp=&sloc=en-us
A: Thanks, I see there has already been a bug filled on this issue. Thank-you for your feedback.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: Will someone from the IE team please take a look @ http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/ierace/ sometime? It's been online for quite a while, and all the normal ways of contacting Microsoft seem to have failed for me. The page demonstrates a security bug in IE8 too.
A: I just checked your demo on a recent build and it doesn't seem to be crashing. We will do more investigation as well. Thanks!
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: "Ballmer: Microsoft 'interested' in open source browser" - it is really? (news link http://feeds.infoworld.com/click.phdo?i=a5f10c2ad1319ec7d13d810999b8327e)
A: As the IE team has mentioned previously, we are committed to working with the Web community to continue to help move the Web forward. Internet Explorer 8 is part of our core approach to moving the web forward while still driving innovation, and standards support. Customers tell us that this is what they want, and we will continue to listen to them to help develop Internet Explorer.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: Sorry, the demo page doesn't intend to crash IE. It's mostly an information disclosure bug.
A: Ah I see. the dialog pops up saying that it failed to grab cookie information, which I assume is a good thing. We will double check this demo though.
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: and another bug not replied to http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?query=print&dg=microsoft.public.internetexplorer.beta&cat=en_us_2BAF8EC5-645C-4477-A380-0F1CF6C102F9&lang=en&cr=us&pt=&catlist=&dglist=&ptlist=&exp=&sloc
A: PTG- IE8 is still in Beta and we are still investigating reports such as the group of printing issues you point to with this URL
Adam [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Will there be another beta, and when will rtm be?
A: We haven't announced the next public milestone for IE8. Our schedule is driven by build quality which we use feedback from the community to help drive.
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: Is there a way to move the menubar to the top of the window in IE7? A friend of mine is asking about that. Is this more customizable in IE8?
A: I believe you can click on Tools->Toolbar->Menu Bar, which allows you to toggle the appearance of the menu bar.
JP [msft] (Expert):
Q: re: clipboard accelerators - I meant adding some accelerators with clipboard actions (copy text, copy html, copy image url, etc.)
A: That's a good suggestion. I encourage you to create your own and submit it to the IE 8 Gallery so the community can use it. The MSDN article explaing how to create your own http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc289775(VS.85).aspx
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: @Kristen - Thanks - I Love Microsoft - I Love IE :)
A: I pass you're compliments to the team :)
Tony [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: Re: Q#20: well I think the design is flawed. it is very common to have multiple "web apps" running on a single domain. e.g. my DB-web access, my Appserver web-access, and the app itlself. my app is standards mode, but the others are legacy, thus not.
A: The meta tag or custom http header can be used to get around this, as both will override the domain-level settings, allowing you to control the mode on a page-by-page basis. This blog post contains some helpful details and links: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/06/10/introducing-ie-emulateie7.aspx
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Q: @The experts: Thank you all!
A: you are welcome!
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Q: What do you think to have an AddOn competition at IE8's RTW release ;)? You'll need to show outstanding people outside this world that not only FireFox has great AddOns. This way would be also a great way to promote IE8. :)
A: That's a great idea and I believe we had one for IE7 release. I will pass on your suggestion to our community team. Thanks so much!
Daniel (Moderator):
Well we're out of time for today's chat. Thank you very much to all of our guests who joined us today as well as to our Internet Explorer Experts for answering questions for us-- have a great day everyone!
Kristen [MSFT] (Expert):
Have a good remainder of 2008! Thanks for your participation in the chats this year! Chat with you in 2009.
Allison [MSFT] (Expert):
Thanks everyone!
Harel Williams[MSFT] (Moderator):
Thanks for coming guys! We'll see you again soon! (H)
JP [msft] (Expert):
Have a good day guys. <JP has left the room>
Tony [MSFT] (Expert):
Thanks everyone! Have a good day!
