{"id":1152944,"date":"2025-10-22T03:19:55","date_gmt":"2025-10-22T10:19:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/?post_type=msr-blog-post&#038;p=1152944"},"modified":"2025-10-23T01:34:16","modified_gmt":"2025-10-23T08:34:16","slug":"vl-norm","status":"publish","type":"msr-blog-post","link":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/articles\/vl-norm\/","title":{"rendered":"VL Norm\uff1a\u8ba9\u5f3a\u5316\u5b66\u4e60\u66f4\u7a33\u3001\u66f4\u5feb\u7684\u5173\u952e\u4e00\u6b65"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>\u7f16\u8005\u6309\uff1a\u968f\u7740\u5927\u8bed\u8a00\u6a21\u578b\uff08LLMs\uff09\u63a8\u7406\u80fd\u529b\u7684\u4e0d\u65ad\u63d0\u5347\uff0c\u5982\u4f55\u5728\u8bad\u7ec3\u8fc7\u7a0b\u4e2d\u4fdd\u6301\u7a33\u5b9a\u7684\u4f18\u5316\u6548\u7387\u4e0e\u53ef\u9a8c\u8bc1\u6027\uff0c\u6210\u4e3a\u5f3a\u5316\u5b66\u4e60\u7814\u7a76\u7684\u91cd\u8981\u65b9\u5411\u3002\u7531\u5fae\u8f6f\u4e9a\u6d32\u7814\u7a76\u9662\u4e0e\u6e05\u534e\u5927\u5b66\u8054\u5408\u63d0\u51fa\u7684 VL Norm \u65b9\u6cd5\uff0c\u9488\u5bf9\u53ef\u9a8c\u8bc1\u5956\u52b1\u5f3a\u5316\u5b66\u4e60\uff08RLVR\uff09\u4e2d\u56e0\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\u6ce2\u52a8\u5bfc\u81f4\u7684\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\u8fc7\u5927\u95ee\u9898\uff0c\u7ed9\u51fa\u4e86\u7406\u8bba\u4e0a\u65e0\u504f\u4e14\u65b9\u5dee\u6700\u5c0f\u7684\u89e3\u51b3\u65b9\u6848\u3002\u5728\u591a\u79cd\u4efb\u52a1\u548c\u6a21\u578b\u89c4\u6a21\u4e0a\uff0cVL Norm \u5747\u663e\u8457\u63d0\u5347\u4e86\u6536\u655b\u901f\u5ea6\u4e0e\u8bad\u7ec3\u7a33\u5b9a\u6027\uff0c\u5c55\u73b0\u51fa\u4e86\u5f3a\u5316\u5b66\u4e60\u4f18\u5316\u7684\u65b0\u8303\u5f0f\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p>\u8fd1\u5e74\u6765\uff0c\u53ef\u9a8c\u8bc1\u5956\u52b1\u5f3a\u5316\u5b66\u4e60\uff08Reinforcement Learning with Verifiable Rewards, RLVR\uff09\u5728\u63d0\u5347\u5927\u8bed\u8a00\u6a21\u578b\uff08LLMs\uff09\u63a8\u7406\u80fd\u529b\u65b9\u9762\u5c55\u73b0\u4e86\u5de8\u5927\u6f5c\u529b\u3002\u7136\u800c\uff0cRLVR \u7684\u8bad\u7ec3\u8fc7\u7a0b\u4e2d\u5b58\u5728\u7740\u4e00\u4e2a\u5173\u952e\u96be\u9898\u2014\u2014\u6a21\u578b\u751f\u6210\u7684\u56de\u7b54\u957f\u5ea6\u53d8\u5316\u5de8\u5927\uff0c\u4ece\u51e0\u5341\u5230\u51e0\u5343 token \u4e0d\u7b49\u3002\u8fd9\u79cd\u957f\u5ea6\u4e0d\u7a33\u5b9a\u6027\u4f1a\u5bfc\u81f4\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\u5267\u70c8\u6ce2\u52a8\uff0c\u4ece\u800c\u4f7f\u4f18\u5316\u8fc7\u7a0b\u4e0d\u7a33\u5b9a\u3001\u6536\u655b\u901f\u5ea6\u53d8\u6162\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u9488\u5bf9\u8fd9\u4e00\u95ee\u9898\uff0c\u5fae\u8f6f\u4e9a\u6d32\u7814\u7a76\u9662\u548c\u6e05\u534e\u5927\u5b66\u7684\u7814\u7a76\u56e2\u961f\u8054\u5408\u63d0\u51fa\u4e86&nbsp;VL Norm&nbsp;\u65b9\u6cd5\u3002\u8be5\u65b9\u6cd5\u4e0d\u4ec5\u5728\u7406\u8bba\u4e0a\u5b9e\u73b0\u4e86\u65e0\u504f\u5dee\u4e14\u65b9\u5dee\u66f4\u5c0f\u7684\u4f30\u8ba1\uff0c\u800c\u4e14\u5728\u4e0d\u540c\u4efb\u52a1\u3001\u6a21\u578b\u548c\u751f\u6210\u957f\u5ea6\u4e0b\u7684\u5b9e\u9a8c\u4e2d\u5747\u5c55\u73b0\u51fa\u4e86\u66f4\u5feb\u3001\u66f4\u7a33\u5b9a\u7684\u8bad\u7ec3\u8868\u73b0\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>VL Norm: Rethink Loss Aggregation in RLVR<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u8bba\u6587\u94fe\u63a5\uff1a<a class=\"msr-external-link glyph-append glyph-append-open-in-new-tab glyph-append-xsmall\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/arxiv.org\/abs\/2509.07558\">https:\/\/arxiv.org\/abs\/2509.07558<span class=\"sr-only\"> (opens in new tab)<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"965\" height=\"273\" src=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-1.png\" alt=\"chart, bar chart\" class=\"wp-image-1152945\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-1.png 965w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-1-300x85.png 300w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-1-768x217.png 768w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-1-240x68.png 240w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-1-960x273.png 960w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 965px) 100vw, 965px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">\u56fe1\uff1a\u5728 RLVR \u4e2d\uff0c\u6a21\u578b\u8f93\u51fa\u7684\u957f\u5ea6\u53d8\u5316\u5de8\u5927\uff0c\u5e26\u6765\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\u7684\u6ce2\u52a8\uff08\u5de6\uff09\u3002\u5df2\u6709\u7684\u805a\u5408\u65b9\u6cd5\u8981\u4e48\u4f1a\u6709\u504f\u5dee\uff0c\u5bfc\u81f4\u6536\u655b\u901f\u5ea6\u6162\uff1b\u8981\u4e48\u6709\u9ad8\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\uff0c\u5bfc\u81f4\u4f18\u5316\u8fc7\u7a0b\u4e0d\u7a33\u5b9a\uff0c\u800c VL Norm \u662f\u4e00\u79cd\u65e0\u504f\u5dee\u4e14\u7406\u8bba\u6700\u5c0f\u5316\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\u7684\u805a\u5408\u65b9\u6cd5\uff0c\u53ef\u4ee5\u89e3\u51b3\u4e0a\u8ff0\u95ee\u9898\u3002<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"rlvr-\u7684\u6311\u6218-\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\u5dee\u5f02\u5bfc\u81f4\u8bad\u7ec3\u4e0d\u7a33\u5b9a\">RLVR \u7684\u6311\u6218\uff1a\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\u5dee\u5f02\u5bfc\u81f4\u8bad\u7ec3\u4e0d\u7a33\u5b9a<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>\u5728 RLVR \u4e2d\uff0c\u672a\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u7684\u5355\u4e2a\u6837\u672c\u7684\u68af\u5ea6\u53ef\u4ee5\u7531\u5982\u4e0b\u5f0f\u5b50\u8868\u793a\uff1a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"628\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-2.png\" alt=\"logo, company name\" class=\"wp-image-1152946\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-2.png 628w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-2-300x72.png 300w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-2-240x57.png 240w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 628px) 100vw, 628px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>\u7814\u7a76\u56e2\u961f\u53d1\u73b0\uff0c\u5728 RLVR \u4e2d\uff0c\u6837\u672c\u7684\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\u5f80\u5f80\u80fd\u8fbe\u5230\u6570\u5343\u751a\u81f3\u4e0a\u4e07\u4e2a token\uff0c\u968f\u7740\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\u7684\u5927\u5e45\u968f\u673a\u6ce2\u52a8\u7d2f\u52a0\uff0c\u672a\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u6837\u672c\u68af\u5ea6\u7684\u65b9\u5dee\u4e0e\u957f\u5ea6\u5448\u6b63\u6bd4\u5173\u7cfb\u3002\u5982\u56fe2\u6240\u793a\uff0c\u968f\u7740\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\uff08response length\uff09\u7684\u4e0a\u5347\uff0c\u6700\u540e\u4e00\u5c42 QKV \u7684\u6837\u672c\u68af\u5ea6\u504f\u79bb\u5e73\u5747\u68af\u5ea6\u7684\u5173\u7cfb\u5927\u81f4\u5448\u73b0\u7ebf\u6027\u53d8\u5316\u3002\u8fd9\u79cd\u9ad8\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\u4e0d\u53ef\u907f\u514d\u5730\u4f1a\u5e26\u6765\u6536\u655b\u6162\u548c\u8bad\u7ec3\u4e0d\u7a33\u5b9a\u7684\u95ee\u9898\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"239\" src=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-3-1024x239.png\" alt=\"chart, scatter chart\" class=\"wp-image-1152947\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-3-1024x239.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-3-300x70.png 300w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-3-768x180.png 768w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-3-240x56.png 240w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-3.png 1270w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">\u56fe2\uff1a\u5de6\u4fa7\uff1a\u6700\u540e\u4e00\u5c42 QKV \u7684\u6837\u672c\u68af\u5ea6\u504f\u79bb\u5e73\u5747\u68af\u5ea6\u7684\u5173\u7cfb\u5927\u81f4\u5448\u73b0\u7ebf\u6027\u53d8\u5316\u3002\u53f3\u4fa7\uff1a\u9ad8\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\u5e26\u6765\u6536\u655b\u6162\u548c\u4e0d\u7a33\u5b9a\u7684\u95ee\u9898\u3002<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>\u4e3a\u4e86\u7f13\u89e3\u6b64\u95ee\u9898\uff0c\u73b0\u6709\u7684\u65b9\u6cd5\u5927\u591a\u6570\u91c7\u7528\u4e86\u4e0d\u540c\u7684\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u65b9\u6cd5\uff0c\u5982 GRPO \u4f7f\u7528\u6837\u672c\u5c42\u6b21\u7684\u957f\u5ea6\u8fdb\u884c\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\uff0cDAPO \u4f7f\u7528 batch \u5c42\u6b21\u7684\u603b\u957f\u5ea6\u548c\u8fdb\u884c\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\uff0c\u800c Dr. GRPO \u4f7f\u7528\u6700\u5927\u957f\u5ea6\u8fdb\u884c\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u3002\u7814\u7a76\u56e2\u961f\u5206\u6790\u4e86\u8fd9\u4e9b\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u65b9\u6cd5\u7684\u504f\u5dee\u548c\u65b9\u5dee\u6027\u8d28\uff0c\u53d1\u73b0\u5b83\u4eec\u8981\u4e48\u5b58\u5728\u4f30\u8ba1\u504f\u5dee\uff0c\u8981\u4e48\u5b58\u5728\u65b9\u5dee\u8f83\u9ad8\u7684\u95ee\u9898\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u5982\u88681\u6240\u793a\uff0cGRPO \u548c DAPO \u7684\u957f\u5ea6\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u9879\u4f1a\u8ba9 E(g) \u53d8\u5f97\u548c\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\u76f8\u5173\uff0c\u5728\u8bad\u7ec3\u8fc7\u7a0b\u4e2d\uff0c\u957f\u5ea6\u4e00\u822c\u4f1a\u589e\u957f\uff0c\u4ece\u800c\u5bfc\u81f4\u8bad\u7ec3\u540e\u671f\u7684\u901f\u5ea6\u53d8\u6162\u3002\u6b64\u5916\uff0cDr. GRPO \u548c DAPO \u7684 CV(g) \u6bd4 GRPO \u66f4\u5927\uff0c\u4f7f\u5f97\u5b83\u4eec\u7684\u4f18\u5316\u8fc7\u7a0b\u66f4\u52a0\u4e0d\u7a33\u5b9a\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"380\" src=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-4-1024x380.png\" alt=\"diagram\" class=\"wp-image-1152948\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-4-1024x380.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-4-300x111.png 300w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-4-768x285.png 768w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-4-240x89.png 240w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-4.png 1268w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">\u88681\uff1a\u4e0d\u540c\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u65b9\u6cd5\u7684\u504f\u5dee\u3001\u65b9\u5dee\u548c\u53d8\u5f02\u7cfb\u6570\uff08CV\uff09\u5bf9\u6bd4\u3002<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"vl-norm-\u65e0\u504f\u5dee\u4e14\u65b9\u5dee\u6700\u5c0f\u7684\u805a\u5408\u65b9\u6cd5\">VL Norm\uff1a\u65e0\u504f\u5dee\u4e14\u65b9\u5dee\u6700\u5c0f\u7684\u805a\u5408\u65b9\u6cd5<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>\u9488\u5bf9\u4e0a\u8ff0\u4e0d\u8db3\uff0c\u7814\u7a76\u56e2\u961f\u91cd\u65b0\u5b9a\u4e49\u4e86\u95ee\u9898\uff0c\u81f4\u529b\u4e8e\u5728\u65e0\u504f\u5dee\u7684\u7ea6\u675f\u4e0b\u5b9e\u73b0\u6700\u5c0f\u65b9\u5dee\u4f30\u8ba1\u3002\u5177\u4f53\u5982\u4e0b\uff1a\u5047\u8bbe\u6709 N \u4e2a\u6837\u672c\uff0c\u6bcf\u4e2a\u6837\u672c\u5bf9\u5e94\u7684\u68af\u5ea6\u662f g_i\uff0c\u4e14\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\u548c\u6837\u672c\u957f\u5ea6 L_i \u6210\u6b63\u6bd4\uff0c\u76ee\u6807\u662f\u627e\u5230 g_i \u7684\u4e00\u4e2a\u7ebf\u6027\u7ec4\u5408\uff0c\u4f7f\u5176\u65e2\u662f\u65e0\u504f\u7684\uff0c\u53c8\u662f\u65b9\u5dee\u6700\u5c0f\u7684\u3002\u7814\u7a76\u56e2\u961f\u5229\u7528\u62c9\u683c\u6717\u65e5\u65b9\u6cd5\uff0c\u89e3\u51fa\u4e86\u7ebf\u6027\u7ec4\u5408\u7684\u53c2\u6570\u9700\u6ee1\u8db3\u4e0b\u9762\u7684\u5f62\u5f0f\uff08\u5176\u4e2d \u03b1 = 1 \u65f6\u65b9\u5dee\u6700\u5c0f\uff09\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"565\" height=\"137\" src=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-5.png\" alt=\"formular\" class=\"wp-image-1152949\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-5.png 565w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-5-300x73.png 300w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-5-240x58.png 240w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 565px) 100vw, 565px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>VL Norm \u5177\u5907\u4ee5\u4e0b\u5173\u952e\u7279\u6027\uff1a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>\u4e0d\u7ba1 \u03b1 \u53d6\u503c\u591a\u5c11\uff0c\u5b83\u59cb\u7ec8\u662f\u6b63\u786e\u68af\u5ea6\u7684\u65e0\u504f\u4f30\u8ba1\u3002<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>\u5f53 \u03b1 =1 \u65f6\uff0c\u5728\u65e0\u504f\u7ea6\u675f\u4e0b\u5b9e\u73b0\u7406\u8bba\u6700\u5c0f\u65b9\u5dee\u3002<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>\u5f53 0<\u03b1<1 \u65f6\uff0cVL Norm \u4f1a\u6bd4 \u03b1 = 1 \u65f6\u66f4\u591a\u5229\u7528\u957f\u8f93\u51fa\u6837\u672c\u7684\u68af\u5ea6\uff0cCV \u7565\u6709\u63d0\u5347\uff0c\u4f46\u4e0d\u4f1a\u6bd4 Dr. GRPO \u6216 DAPO \u66f4\u9ad8\u3002<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>\u5f53 \u03b1 = 0 \u65f6\uff0cVL Norm \u5c31\u7b49\u4ef7\u4e8e Dr. GRPO \u4e2d\u7684\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u65b9\u6cd5\u3002<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>\u7814\u7a76\u56e2\u961f\u5728\u4e0d\u540c\u7684\u4efb\u52a1\uff08Math\u3001CountDown\uff09\u3001\u4e0d\u540c\u7684\u6a21\u578b\u5927\u5c0f\uff083B\u30017B\uff09\uff0c\u4ee5\u53ca\u4e0d\u540c\u7684\u6700\u5927\u56de\u590d\u957f\u5ea6\uff083072\u30018192\uff09\u4e0a\u8fdb\u884c\u4e86\u6d4b\u8bd5\u3002\u7ed3\u679c\u8868\u660e\uff0cVL Norm \u663e\u8457\u4f18\u4e8e\u591a\u79cd\u57fa\u7ebf\u65b9\u6cd5\uff0c\u53ef\u4ee5\u5728\u66f4\u77ed\u7684\u6b65\u6570\u4e0b\u6536\u655b\u5230\u66f4\u597d\u7684\u6a21\u578b\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"224\" src=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-6-1024x224.png\" alt=\"chart, line chart\" class=\"wp-image-1152950\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-6-1024x224.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-6-300x65.png 300w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-6-768x168.png 768w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-6-240x52.png 240w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-6.png 1269w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">\u56fe3\uff1a\u4e0d\u540c\u4efb\u52a1\u3001\u6a21\u578b\u5927\u5c0f\u3001\u6700\u5927\u957f\u5ea6\u4e0a\u548c\u4e0d\u540c\u57fa\u7ebf\u7684\u5bf9\u6bd4\u3002<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>\u5728 CountDown \u4efb\u52a1\u4e0a\uff0cVL Norm \u80fd\u4fdd\u6301\u66f4\u7a33\u5b9a\u7684\u71b5\uff0c\u4f46 DAPO \u548c Dr. GRPO \u5e38\u5e38\u4f1a\u5f15\u8d77\u71b5\u7684\u5267\u70c8\u53d8\u5316\uff0c\u8fd9\u4e0e\u524d\u6587\u5bf9 CV \u7684\u5206\u6790\u7ed3\u679c\u4e00\u81f4\u3002\u5728 Math \u4efb\u52a1\u4e0a\uff0cVL Norm \u4e5f\u80fd\u66f4\u5feb\u5730\u5f15\u8d77\u957f\u5ea6\u7684\u589e\u52a0\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"678\" height=\"291\" src=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-7.png\" alt=\"chart\" class=\"wp-image-1152951\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-7.png 678w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-7-300x129.png 300w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-7-240x103.png 240w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 678px) 100vw, 678px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">\u56fe4\uff1a\u5de6\u4fa7\uff1aCountDown \u4efb\u52a1\u4e0a\u71b5\u7684\u53d8\u5316\uff1b\u53f3\u4fa7\uff1aMath \u4efb\u52a1\u4e0a\u7684\u957f\u5ea6\u53d8\u5316\u3002<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>\u7814\u7a76\u56e2\u961f\u8fd8\u628a VL Norm \u548c DAPO \u4e2d\u7684 Overlong Filtering \u548c Soft Penalty \u8fdb\u884c\u4e86\u5bf9\u6bd4\u3002\u5728 CountDown \u4efb\u52a1\u4e0a\uff0c VL Norm \u663e\u8457\u4f18\u4e8e\u4e8c\u8005\u3002\u76f8\u6bd4\u6700\u597d\u7684 DAPO \u57fa\u7ebf\uff0c\u5e94\u7528 VL Norm \u53ef\u4ee5\u83b7\u5f972.67\u500d\u7684\u8bad\u7ec3\u52a0\u901f\uff0c\u4ee5\u53ca+4.6%\u7684\u51c6\u786e\u7387\u63d0\u5347\u3002<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"285\" src=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-8-1024x285.png\" alt=\"chart, histogram\" class=\"wp-image-1152952\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-8-1024x285.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-8-300x83.png 300w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-8-768x213.png 768w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-8-240x67.png 240w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-8.png 1270w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">\u56fe5\uff1a\u5728 CountDown \u4efb\u52a1\u4e0a VL Norm \u548c DAPO \u5404\u4e2a\u65b9\u6cd5\u7684\u5bf9\u6bd4\u3002<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"273\" src=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-9.png\" alt=\"chart, line chart, scatter chart\" class=\"wp-image-1152953\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-9.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-9-300x80.png 300w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-9-768x205.png 768w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/vl-norm-9-240x64.png 240w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">\u56fe6\uff1a\u5728 CountDown \u4efb\u52a1\u4e2d\uff0c\u5c06 VL Norm \u5e94\u7528\u5230 DAPO \u4e2d\u53ef\u4ee5\u83b7\u5f972.67\u500d\u7684\u6536\u655b\u901f\u5ea6\u63d0\u5347\uff0c\u4ee5\u53ca+4.6%\u7684\u51c6\u786e\u7387\u63d0\u5347\u3002<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>VL Norm \u80fd\u591f\u5728\u4fdd\u6301\u4e0e\u6807\u51c6\u5f3a\u5316\u5b66\u4e60\u7406\u8bba\u4e00\u81f4\u7684\u524d\u63d0\u4e0b\uff0c\u63d0\u4f9b\u65e0\u504f\u7684\u7b56\u7565\u68af\u5ea6\u4f30\u8ba1\uff0c\u5e76\u6700\u5c0f\u5316\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\uff0c\u4ece\u800c\u4f7f\u5f97\u8bad\u7ec3\u66f4\u7a33\u5b9a\uff0c\u5e76\u6536\u655b\u5230\u66f4\u5f3a\u7684\u6a21\u578b\u3002\u5728\u5b9e\u9a8c\u4e2d\uff0cVL Norm \u5728\u4e0d\u540c\u6a21\u578b\u89c4\u6a21\u3001\u6700\u5927\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\u4ee5\u53ca\u4efb\u52a1\u7c7b\u578b\u4e0a\u5747\u663e\u8457\u4f18\u4e8e\u73b0\u6709\u65b9\u6cd5\uff0c\u4e3a RLVR \u8bad\u7ec3\u5e26\u6765\u4e86\u66f4\u52a0\u7a33\u5065\u7684\u4f18\u5316\u8def\u5f84\u2014\u2014\u8ba9\u5927\u6a21\u578b\u5b66\u5f97\u66f4\u5feb\u3001\u66f4\u597d\u3002<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u7f16\u8005\u6309\uff1a\u968f\u7740\u5927\u8bed\u8a00\u6a21\u578b\uff08LLMs\uff09\u63a8\u7406\u80fd\u529b\u7684\u4e0d\u65ad\u63d0\u5347\uff0c\u5982\u4f55\u5728\u8bad\u7ec3\u8fc7\u7a0b\u4e2d\u4fdd\u6301\u7a33\u5b9a\u7684\u4f18\u5316\u6548\u7387\u4e0e\u53ef\u9a8c\u8bc1\u6027\uff0c\u6210\u4e3a\u5f3a\u5316\u5b66\u4e60\u7814\u7a76\u7684\u91cd\u8981\u65b9\u5411\u3002\u7531\u5fae\u8f6f\u4e9a\u6d32\u7814\u7a76\u9662\u4e0e\u6e05\u534e\u5927\u5b66\u8054\u5408\u63d0\u51fa\u7684 VL Norm \u65b9\u6cd5\uff0c\u9488\u5bf9\u53ef\u9a8c\u8bc1\u5956\u52b1\u5f3a\u5316\u5b66\u4e60\uff08RLVR\uff09\u4e2d\u56e0\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\u6ce2\u52a8\u5bfc\u81f4\u7684\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\u8fc7\u5927\u95ee\u9898\uff0c\u7ed9\u51fa\u4e86\u7406\u8bba\u4e0a\u65e0\u504f\u4e14\u65b9\u5dee\u6700\u5c0f\u7684\u89e3\u51b3\u65b9\u6848\u3002\u5728\u591a\u79cd\u4efb\u52a1\u548c\u6a21\u578b\u89c4\u6a21\u4e0a\uff0cVL Norm \u5747\u663e\u8457\u63d0\u5347\u4e86\u6536\u655b\u901f\u5ea6\u4e0e\u8bad\u7ec3\u7a33\u5b9a\u6027\uff0c\u5c55\u73b0\u51fa\u4e86\u5f3a\u5316\u5b66\u4e60\u4f18\u5316\u7684\u65b0\u8303\u5f0f\u3002 \u8fd1\u5e74\u6765\uff0c\u53ef\u9a8c\u8bc1\u5956\u52b1\u5f3a\u5316\u5b66\u4e60\uff08Reinforcement Learning with Verifiable Rewards, RLVR\uff09\u5728\u63d0\u5347\u5927\u8bed\u8a00\u6a21\u578b\uff08LLMs\uff09\u63a8\u7406\u80fd\u529b\u65b9\u9762\u5c55\u73b0\u4e86\u5de8\u5927\u6f5c\u529b\u3002\u7136\u800c\uff0cRLVR \u7684\u8bad\u7ec3\u8fc7\u7a0b\u4e2d\u5b58\u5728\u7740\u4e00\u4e2a\u5173\u952e\u96be\u9898\u2014\u2014\u6a21\u578b\u751f\u6210\u7684\u56de\u7b54\u957f\u5ea6\u53d8\u5316\u5de8\u5927\uff0c\u4ece\u51e0\u5341\u5230\u51e0\u5343 token \u4e0d\u7b49\u3002\u8fd9\u79cd\u957f\u5ea6\u4e0d\u7a33\u5b9a\u6027\u4f1a\u5bfc\u81f4\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\u5267\u70c8\u6ce2\u52a8\uff0c\u4ece\u800c\u4f7f\u4f18\u5316\u8fc7\u7a0b\u4e0d\u7a33\u5b9a\u3001\u6536\u655b\u901f\u5ea6\u53d8\u6162\u3002 \u9488\u5bf9\u8fd9\u4e00\u95ee\u9898\uff0c\u5fae\u8f6f\u4e9a\u6d32\u7814\u7a76\u9662\u548c\u6e05\u534e\u5927\u5b66\u7684\u7814\u7a76\u56e2\u961f\u8054\u5408\u63d0\u51fa\u4e86&nbsp;VL Norm&nbsp;\u65b9\u6cd5\u3002\u8be5\u65b9\u6cd5\u4e0d\u4ec5\u5728\u7406\u8bba\u4e0a\u5b9e\u73b0\u4e86\u65e0\u504f\u5dee\u4e14\u65b9\u5dee\u66f4\u5c0f\u7684\u4f30\u8ba1\uff0c\u800c\u4e14\u5728\u4e0d\u540c\u4efb\u52a1\u3001\u6a21\u578b\u548c\u751f\u6210\u957f\u5ea6\u4e0b\u7684\u5b9e\u9a8c\u4e2d\u5747\u5c55\u73b0\u51fa\u4e86\u66f4\u5feb\u3001\u66f4\u7a33\u5b9a\u7684\u8bad\u7ec3\u8868\u73b0\u3002 VL Norm: Rethink Loss Aggregation in RLVR \u8bba\u6587\u94fe\u63a5\uff1ahttps:\/\/arxiv.org\/abs\/2509.07558 (opens in new tab) \u5728 RLVR \u4e2d\uff0c\u672a\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u7684\u5355\u4e2a\u6837\u672c\u7684\u68af\u5ea6\u53ef\u4ee5\u7531\u5982\u4e0b\u5f0f\u5b50\u8868\u793a\uff1a \u7814\u7a76\u56e2\u961f\u53d1\u73b0\uff0c\u5728 RLVR \u4e2d\uff0c\u6837\u672c\u7684\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\u5f80\u5f80\u80fd\u8fbe\u5230\u6570\u5343\u751a\u81f3\u4e0a\u4e07\u4e2a token\uff0c\u968f\u7740\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\u7684\u5927\u5e45\u968f\u673a\u6ce2\u52a8\u7d2f\u52a0\uff0c\u672a\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u6837\u672c\u68af\u5ea6\u7684\u65b9\u5dee\u4e0e\u957f\u5ea6\u5448\u6b63\u6bd4\u5173\u7cfb\u3002\u5982\u56fe2\u6240\u793a\uff0c\u968f\u7740\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\uff08response length\uff09\u7684\u4e0a\u5347\uff0c\u6700\u540e\u4e00\u5c42 QKV \u7684\u6837\u672c\u68af\u5ea6\u504f\u79bb\u5e73\u5747\u68af\u5ea6\u7684\u5173\u7cfb\u5927\u81f4\u5448\u73b0\u7ebf\u6027\u53d8\u5316\u3002\u8fd9\u79cd\u9ad8\u68af\u5ea6\u65b9\u5dee\u4e0d\u53ef\u907f\u514d\u5730\u4f1a\u5e26\u6765\u6536\u655b\u6162\u548c\u8bad\u7ec3\u4e0d\u7a33\u5b9a\u7684\u95ee\u9898\u3002 \u4e3a\u4e86\u7f13\u89e3\u6b64\u95ee\u9898\uff0c\u73b0\u6709\u7684\u65b9\u6cd5\u5927\u591a\u6570\u91c7\u7528\u4e86\u4e0d\u540c\u7684\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u65b9\u6cd5\uff0c\u5982 GRPO \u4f7f\u7528\u6837\u672c\u5c42\u6b21\u7684\u957f\u5ea6\u8fdb\u884c\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\uff0cDAPO \u4f7f\u7528 batch \u5c42\u6b21\u7684\u603b\u957f\u5ea6\u548c\u8fdb\u884c\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\uff0c\u800c Dr. GRPO \u4f7f\u7528\u6700\u5927\u957f\u5ea6\u8fdb\u884c\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u3002\u7814\u7a76\u56e2\u961f\u5206\u6790\u4e86\u8fd9\u4e9b\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u65b9\u6cd5\u7684\u504f\u5dee\u548c\u65b9\u5dee\u6027\u8d28\uff0c\u53d1\u73b0\u5b83\u4eec\u8981\u4e48\u5b58\u5728\u4f30\u8ba1\u504f\u5dee\uff0c\u8981\u4e48\u5b58\u5728\u65b9\u5dee\u8f83\u9ad8\u7684\u95ee\u9898\u3002 \u5982\u88681\u6240\u793a\uff0cGRPO \u548c DAPO \u7684\u957f\u5ea6\u5f52\u4e00\u5316\u9879\u4f1a\u8ba9 E(g) \u53d8\u5f97\u548c\u8f93\u51fa\u957f\u5ea6\u76f8\u5173\uff0c\u5728\u8bad\u7ec3\u8fc7\u7a0b\u4e2d\uff0c\u957f\u5ea6\u4e00\u822c\u4f1a\u589e\u957f\uff0c\u4ece\u800c\u5bfc\u81f4\u8bad\u7ec3\u540e\u671f\u7684\u901f\u5ea6\u53d8\u6162\u3002\u6b64\u5916\uff0cDr. GRPO 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